Failing In So Many Ways

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Liang Nuren – Failing In So Many Ways

Fanfest and Crimewatch: Resolved

CCP Greyscale got some sleep and came back to the forums to talk to us a bit more about yesterday’s shenanigans with Crimewatch and the “Suspect” flag. Earlier in the conversation he said this to us:

And yes, I know “I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU EVEN CONSIDERED THAT OPTION”; we consider all the options, and yesterday I threw one out to gauge the player reaction to it, which generated some useful feedback.

So, for all intents and purposes I’m reading this as him unconsciously trolling the player base for some reason. There’s no way that solution could possibly have flown – but he says he drew inspiration from our feedback and has a superior plan. Today, this is the money quote on the state of affairs:

We’re extremely keen to pin down a design where you’ll always be able to defend yourself from aggression without getting CONCORDed. I’m not going to promise anything because I can’t actually predict the future.

This is the direction they’re thinking about with the exact implementation, taken from one of Greyscale’s early position posts on the Suspect flag:

What we’re actually considering right now, based on player suggestions, is to formalize the concept of a “limited engagement”, which is effectively needed for both wardecs and some kind of duelling system, and carry that across to here too. To whit, anyone who engages a suspect becomes part of a “limited engagement” with the suspect on one side and all their aggressors on the other side, and any further interference by anyone else in that engagement gets a suspect flag.

The important thing to note is that they really aren’t going to be able to have a “limited” engagement and still keep the conflicts from spreading via neutral RR and other beneficial effects.  It doesn’t change anything about neutral RR and still leaves us with a similar situation to the one we have now where aggression games will remain confusing.  In my opinion I’d have to say that the right solution to high sec aggression is to reduce the system down to a single flag: are you PVP flagged or are you not PVP flagged?  I would say that taking any PVP action (from can baiting to shooting someone that’s PVP flagged) should flag you for PVP – and thus shootable by anyone else nearby.  Seeing how I’m -10, I’m obviously already fine with anyone (or everyone!) in system shooting me so this wouldn’t be much difference for me.

Yes, that might mean that high sec belts become blood baths as corps, alliances, and friends escalate over a can flip… but why is this a bad thing?

Just to be clear though, they are addressing neutral RR by giving the logis the aggression timer from the people they’re repping.  The net effect is that everyone will be able to deaggress and jump out as soon as everyone’s stopped shooting back.  It works like this (thanks Tippia!):

Confirming: this is exactly what was said, and we asked them about it in very precise terms.

  • BS1 attacks a target and takes a timer.
  • RR1 comes in and starts repping BS1 → RR1 inherits the exact same timer as BS1.
  • BS1 deaggresses and timer countdown starts → RR1 deagresses and countdown starts
  • RR1 keeps repping → Makes zero difference. It still has BS1’s timer — BS1 sits at 40s = RR1 sits at 40s.
  • BS1’s timer runs out and he docks/jumps → RR1’s timer runs out and he can dock/jump

I think its a semi reasonable change, but I feel like Logis are already in a semi delicate position (especially in small gangs).  I’d really like to see the logi aggro change restricted docking instead of simply jumping. The core difference between docking and jumping is that someone can position people on the other side of a gate to catch fleeing logis… but there’s nothing that can be done to catch docking logis.

But overall the changes look far more encouraging than the initial sound of them.  While at first it seemed that CCP had simply lost their ever loving minds, it does seem that they at least listen to the player base far better than they did before.  Greyscale, thanks for working with us to hammer this out.

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